Stacking % damage reduction

Alright Lets say you have multiple types of percent based damaged reduction.

1. 25% chance to reduce damage by 300

2. 35% chance to reduce damage by 200

3. 20% chance to reduce damage by 500

4. 100% chance to reduce by 200 damage

Do they stack ?

If so does one proc ?

Answers please

Only 1 block can take place at a time. The % stack with diminiished values much like crit. The Last attained will be the block that will override all other blocks. Getting several is kind of foolish. Lets say you got Fire and Immortals Shield to make sure fires block overrides shields place it on the floor and pick it back up. With Immortals Shield and any of the others if you do it correctly will work like this 100% chance to block 200 - 20% in which it will block 500 instead.

I'm posting this for people who might want to come up with a quick way to armor whore and if you where to buy a shield for the armor and spell damage reduction (which stacks) and Shield affects which also stack but not with themselves They should try to get the most out of their damage reduction.I only put immortals shield into the equation because it has the same damage reduction as the Spiked stone wall and it also gives stats for those who might try an armor whoring build.

Ok so your saying that if I went ahead and got Immortals shield for the 200 damage reduction then picked up a fire shield I would have.

100% to block 200 damage but 20% of the time I will block 500 insted of 200.

okay now lets say I have multiple lets say I have an Immortals Shield a Reflective Icy Barrier and a Demonic Defender(I picked them up in that order.)

Is this right with more than two blocks
(Everything works but the last item obtained may override the others.)
(100% to block 200 damage but 40% of the time I will block 400 also I will block 600 damage another 20% of the time.)

yes, no, kinda. It stacks like crits.
Not sure the values on each shield, but with this obtained order (the smartest order to have them in)

20% of the time you would block for 600
40% of the time you would block for 400
100% to block 200
v v v v v v v v v v Turns into v v v v v v v v v v
20% of the time you would block for 600
32% of the time you would block for 400
48% to block 200

The Math Behind it:
If the 20% for 600 was your last obtained one, it has the full value of itself. The next one obtained, has the next value. However, there is a chance that they will proc at the same time. If they proc at the same time, the top one will have its way. There is an 8% chance for them to proc at the same time (calculator). That 40% turns into a 32%. Now, 20% of the time you block 600, and 32% of the time, you will block for 400. When neither of those are working, your next shield has a chance to work. As it is a 100% chance to work; every time the others dont, this one will. Overall, with these 3 shields, you lose ~128 damage reduction PER HIT worth of stat, by stacking them.

I will just add in, that just as with crits, it is better to stack a lot of smaller percentages. That is, you can get the 10% innate skill, which is pretty good actually. Then make the rank 2 light shield. What is it, 20% to block for 800? Then as a second shield, I would go for one that has a 25% or 30% chance to block a large number. Most of the rank 2 shields range between 160-200 damage reduction. The less they overlap, the more actual reduction you will get out of it.

Ok that's exactly what I needed thank you glorn.

As your armor increases you find out in late game the damage reduction isnt overly huge. Keep in mind it blocks raw damage before damage reduction is counted in.

Say a hero deals 2000 damage a hit. And you already have 80% damage reduction with say immortals shield's 200 damage block

2000-200= 1800 now reduced by 80% to 340 incoming damage to your hp in truth that 200 damage reduction only reduced 60 extra damage.

Yes but if your going to get the item anyway you should use it to get your monies worth.That and assuming your correct.That 60 damage blocked adds up over time if you have 10k hp and your enemy is doing 600 damage sounds about right for mid game.17 hits without anything factored in.with your 60 reduced damage per hit alone he takes 19 hits to kill you.That 60 damage that you block per hit is 10% of his total damage.I would say that is significant.

careful does bring up a great point. Very late game, it isnt as potent as it is early. Which is why I find it silly so many people give the skill itself such a bad rap. It is like, 90 damage reduction, at level 23. Very powerful early game.

And late game, 60 damage a shot, is also pretty good. I mean, attacks are twice per second. That is still equal to 120 HP/s better than an immortals mask.

Well I actually tried this out with three items
1.Ring of Shield Mastery
2.Reflective Icy Defender
3.Unstable Warping Arm Guard (now on of my favorite items due to spell block)

Everything stacked well and allowed me to tank an archon without taking damage.

My build
Hydralisk
Storm bolt
unholy aura
blood bath
crit master

I also had ring of the speed demon

Glorn2 wrote:

careful does bring up a great point. Very late game, it isnt as potent as it is early. Which is why I find it silly so many people give the skill itself such a bad rap. It is like, 90 damage reduction, at level 23. Very powerful early game.

And late game, 60 damage a shot, is also pretty good. I mean, attacks are twice per second. That is still equal to 120 HP/s better than an immortals mask.

It has a bad rap because it rightfully sucks even from level 1 on wards spike armor and devotion not to mention any other passive out right kick its ass. Damage Block can only get worse as the game goes on. Damage block by all means is not a late game attribute, or at least not a very good one. The more armor you have the less damage your actually blocking. Give me any hero example and I prove that 2 armors spike beats the 2 damage block of harden skin, same goes for the level 12 equivalent of both skills.

Let's use another example you have 1000 incoming damage with 90% damage reduction it is reduced to 100 lets say you have shields 200 damage block you subtract 200 and its now 800 reduced by 90% to 80 damage your 200 damage block only effectively blocked 20 damage. Damage block doesn't scale well at all and is anti synergetic when stacked with armor items.

none of you think outside the box enough to make this stat really work.

You can run a build that has minimal armor on it, and still be very strong defensively. Generally, I would suggest that you have at least 20 total armor for the first duel. Most people try for at least 15. What is that? 25% damage reduction? On someone who is attacking for 75 damage a hit? Blocking a decent bit of damage (about 18). However, with just your base armor giving you 10% damage reduction, and a rank 3 damage reduction; you have the same protection, without spending gold on that extra 15 armor worth of reduction. you also would only get 6 armor from spikes of an equal level; which wouldn't be as powerful as the minor damage reduction.

Later in the game, level 25 or so, you can have 90 damage reduction. This is where armor scaling starts to suck, people have a good 50 armor and 60% reduction, 400 damage. With spikes, you might be able to raise your damage mitigation to 75%; or, an extra 60 damage blocked per hit. Hardened skin would lower it 90. That is a 50% increase in damage reduction.

As your armor increases, this skill actually DOES get stronger. Evetually, you are needing 50-60 armor just to go from 90% to 91% reduction; where that 1% is equal to 20 damage (if your opponent has 2000 damage).

So, yes, while this skill is eventually outdated by items... Arent most skills? While you are leveling it, it is arguably a better choice than other low-level defensive skills. a good 70% of the skills in the game are outclassed by items eventually. But people still use them for their power before that.

Exactly what are you going to go? Options for items are limited you have to stay away from damage block because it renders your passive to be crap. Armor still considerably lowers its block by a lot and unlike damage block every single point of it stacks you keep forgetting regardless of the damage reduction every point of armor adds 6% of the hero max HP to their ehp (The actual amount needed to kill them).

15 armor equals roughly a little more then 35% damage reduction against say 100 that will lower 35 incoming damage. Now how are you going to level Harden Max or second max in favor of your farm skill? In order for damage block to equal 35 damage block you would need 7-8 points invested into it.

Lets go by the all damage logic and compare SA and HS. Level 16 a fair level to go by?
So with 6 points invested your looking at 28 damage blocked while about 3 or 4 of it will get lowered by your base armor while Spike Armor gives about 15 lowers 35% damage reduction assuming you have no armor probably about 42% with base armor included. Armor is overly better then Harden Skin and unlike block it scales

well the only option left would be to balance it, which i think is what ur trying to get to careful, but that would mean making the reduction crazy at early levels, which would just make the skill unbalanced. sooooo the only other thing i can think of is removing the skill and adding a new one ^_^

Ive included it into a few of my builds, and quite frankly, I raped BN grunts.

I neglected armor for a large part, keeping enough on hand so as not to be weak. A magic shield is pretty decent, as is a one ring later on. While being able to focus a lot more on my HP/MP for a lot of farming.

That is something else you all overlook. If leveling this skill secondarily, you will reduce damage from creeps for an additional 30-40%. As a STR hero, this allowed me to get enough int to farm like a int hero, while having the nasty tanking ability you would get from a str/agi combo. 8 for the first duel with no modes, never having to return to base for heals, only for items.

Complain about numbers all you want, but armor, sure, it works with itself a little bit; which makes it progressively weaker as you get more; this works alongside armor, neither one weakening the other. Especially when you take into account that most STR and INT builds focus agility for the attack speed; leaving their damage per hit much lower.

Again, for the timeframe that the skill is meant to be useful, it is very useful! I doubt any of you actually use the skill to see for yourselves. Just like the AMS and vortex arguments of the past.

For fun, grab Hunter, get pulverize and hardened skin, life regen innate. Start off with the assasins garb, and go from there, buying agi/str items. With an AMS potion, no one will damage you; giving you a massive late-game lead in terms of gold and levels.

Do you guys listen to anything.The skill doesn't need balancing it is just heavily under used due to the fact that no one runs an item build to make it work.You can make this work so many different ways just no one bothers to because spiked armor is just more widely used and is better for late game while damage reduction does the same job it is better suited for early game.Everyone is always more focused on making a build with faster killing power.For example I have my Illidan build which kills ridiculously fast but lacks defense while I have my hydra build which kills slowly but is near impossible to kill.The whole trick here to gain and edge is to find a build that you dont have to heal with early on but still has enough killing power to level quickly early on.Any build I have based on this concept generally rapes mid game after the second duel with the right items they just go into overdrive.My whole point is that harden skin and innate damage reduction can enable a build that normally would use spiked armor to farm fast enough early on to gain that boost.Therefor the skill is useful and doesn't need to be changed.

I'm just using math to mess with people. Really you can prove any skill to be weak just run specific numbers while leaving other variables out. Against Heroes Spike Armor or Devotion is better then Harden skin the math is there and it proves it. However against creeps they work out to be close to the same while at certain points of the game Harden skin may be stronger. Harden skin or damage block in general is at its strongest point against fixxed damage sources i.e creeping or summons. By the way look closely at the attack speed items upgrades almost all of them use damage block somewhere in them be it the Masterful Ring of Shielding which overrives your passive, Super Sonic Ring,The Intelligence Agility item the name of it escapes me, To run a Harden skin build correctly and have enough attack speed you would likely have to go the Totemic Set route most of the agility items have damage block in them. Masterful Ring of Shielding, Super Sonic Ring, and so on.

Again, numbers to mess with people. Very easy to avoid essentially the two item lines you listed. Also, "lol at ANYONE who rushes ring of masterful shielding. You can simply go for mastery rather than supersonic, and be better off anyway. As with all skill builds, you need a semi-specific item build to optimize the skill build. Generally, I use it with STR heroes, because, well, high HP, high damage, low damage taken. Higer HP works to counter spells in its own way; which are your only weakness when running a damage reduction build.

You could argue that devotion sucks because it can be obtained on items; so why invest points into it? Spiked armor doesnt hurt range, and at max level it only offers as much blocking as panths armor. It really only offers about 8000G worth of stats, and it is much easier to obtain the armor than having to make a shield, to out-do the blocking of hardened skin. Until level 25 or so, armor is MUCH easier to obtain. You can obtain any amount of armor along side your damage reduction; but you cannot obtain that much reduction so easily along side your armor.

^^Works both ways.