Spiked armor/damage return

You know something the burden of proof is up to me then isnt it?

Heres proof one Spikes and Helms or atleast more then one helm stack.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mmomogltw35 go to there download the replay. I didnt attack the right archon there. You can plainly see the damage return stacks and not with diminished returns but directly.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mzmxwaale1m go there to download the replay. Look very closely at the magnatars (mags are magic immune) I had the cheat whosyourdaddy noticed how I have both Helm and Spikes if it was pure they would die but they didnt which proves the damage type is magic.

wow, i guess you are the winner than, congrats.

you also proved that spikes isnt OP, because spell reduction can easily counter it.

I will lower the return on helm to 7% though.

WOWWWWW, WOW, WOW, WOW

So, I opened up helm of the war god, for the first time since I got the map, and guess what..

15%!!!

Yes, it is set to 15%. Which means, at least as far back as supreme B, helm of the war god has been 15% damage return.


While watching the replay, i realized, the spiked damage was adding up to more damage return than he actually had.. and sure enough, this is why.

fixing, and I'm gonna check out a few of the other older items that I've never taken the time to look at.

Yay I inadvertantly discovered an imba.

You know what this means for damage reduction don't you? Since it doesn't counter damage return it basically sucks. I think damage reduction for all skills and items should be doubled. Doubling it might not even be enough. It might need to even be tripled!

So whats the conclusion? Do spikes and multiple helms damage return stack?

Hey, why can't I split the topic for this? I was going to until i figured out I could only reply on this. This information about damage return and damage reduction deserves its own topic so that this handy information is easy to locate.

Did you watch the replay? The answer is yes and they stack fully. Meaning 12+15=27%+15%=42% Damage Returned back. I'm not too sure but I think damage blocks are mainly a physical thing, as most heros deal more damage then 75-200 I'm sure this is the kind of thing made for creeping. I don't think they need to be tripled that would be absurd, Damage block is counted first (this I know for sure). So lets say they deal 800 damage and you have Immortals Armor, it will subtract 200 from 800 and then the armors damage reduction will kick in further lowering the damage to be about 120 being dealt. Im assuming Immortals will give atleast 80% damage reduction.

800-200
600 reduced by 80%
600-480=120
So as you can see damage block does play a significant role. Of course Im not much for this mathcraft so my figures may be way off.

Ok well it still looks like damage reduction would need to be higher on everything. It was originally assumed that damage reduction is what you got to counter damage return after all.

I'm not sure what game you play now, but damage reduction is fine...

I suppose. As long as its intended for creeping and not pvp where players easily get over 1200 dmg. Maybe the cost on some of the damage reduction items should be decreased? Since it doesn't counter dmg return, items that have dmg reduction are not as useful as we thought they were. Up to you.

damage returns only really affects melee heroes, hitting opponents with spikes, or a helm of the war god..

the main function of damage reduction has always been for.. damage reduction... reducing the damage you take, without only stacking +armor... It was never intended as a counter to spikes, if it did counter it, that would be cool, and useful, but that wasnt why i added it into the game...