Religion Talk shoot off

Eh to tell you the truth Im drunk right now. I come up with something when Im sober.

Perfection is an objective that has never and will never be accomplished in this world. God supposedly made man with the ability to make his own decisions. Unfortunately this also meant man could sin. This factor proves exactly two things. Number one that while man is still on this earth, perfection is a hopeless goal, which sadly mankind will continue struggling on to find perfection in their life even though it is impossible. Number two God is imperfect himself by creating the very means of evil to exist. The things he supposedly opposes. The main question becomes is why must God be perfect? Who says God is perfect? Does the ability to create something mean you know everything? I have heard and read about a few crack whores in the past. Does that mean they know everything about parenting because they had the ability to create babies? Why do we hold God to such scrutiny when we barely put such scrutiny upon ourselves? Why must God be perfect in order to exist? Still drunk sorry if this doesn’t make much sense. Im going to sleep and will read what I posted the next day.

"Who says God is perfect?"

Theists.

"Why do we hold God to such scrutiny?"

Hey, I don't even think God exists; I'm just someone trying to show that theistic propositions are false. If anyone claims to know things that are unknowable, it is the theists, who declare in one moment that God is beyond all understanding, and in the next moment go into great detail about what God prefers us to eat on what day.

"Why must God be perfect in order to exist?"

You tell me; it's your position. But if the God you are talking about is not the omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent sort, then we will be leaving the problem of evil behind... and if he is not "perfect" in some sense, then, as Epicurus says, "why call him God?"

this crap will never die......

idk what everyone loves debating this for... all you need to know, is that Aslan is way fuckin cooler than jesus... seeing as how he is a fuckin lion... noone is cooler than lions. especially lions intended to represent jesus..

What about if there were a tank that could fire lions as projectiles?

hell no, aslan looks like asian in all caps.. tanks dont =]

Heh, our jesus can turn water into wine..

their jesus can eat an entire gazelle!

Alright well I guess I will have to just go with Verti on the whole God in a box thing. Like I said once before somewhere on here, there is no absolute proof that Christianity is true. God didn't want it to be absolute proof, or maybe there is no absolute proof that all humans will agree on. Maybe there are people out there who insist 1 + 1 =3 for example. Why? Idk maybe they have alot of pride and wont admit that they are wrong so they delude themselves. Even though Christianity is by no means that simple, I think that many people don't become Christians because they are not 100% sure that it is correct without a doubt.

Part of it is a leap of faith. You either do or you don't. Either way there is no undeniable proof that Christianity is false either. Christian scholars could refute apparent reasons why Christianity is false. If Christianity was proven false and no one could refute it then no one would belive Christianity any more or maybe most people wouldn't anymore. I suppose people with lots of faith would beilive regardless, but, Christianity would eventually die off since most people would renounce that faith upon closer inspection upon it. The fact is that there is no undeniable proof that it is false and I don't think there ever will be. Christianity has been around for over 1000 years in the most scholarly times our world has ever seen. Surely if it was false it would have been proven outright by now.

Religion CANNOT be proven false.

They also can never be proven to be true however, so you saying that if it was false, it would have been proven false by now, is just ignorant to be honest.

That being said, I still dont see the point of this.. just let people live and think how they want, and everyone would be fine

One reason why people don't become Christians is because of the lack of reason to become a Christian. Most people only subscribe to such beliefs because they were born into them. Most, but not all... I am aware of the cases of so-called "born-again" Christians/Muslims etc.

"Either way there is no undeniable proof that Christianity is false either."

This is absolutely not a point for Christianity. There is no "undeniable proof" that my dog, Fantom, is not himself God, and I can argue that case just as strongly as any advocate of this argument in favour of theism.

"Christian scholars could refute apparent reasons why Christianity is false."

The problem of evil has been raised for ages.... it is as old or perhaps older than Christianity. No satisfactory answer has been given; that is to say, nobody has been able to refute it. The suggested answers that you might hear are either easily exposed as fallacious, or else require the admission of a contradiction in order to be accepted, which means that they really aren't answers at all.

"If Christianity was proven false and no one could refute it then no one would belive Christianity any more or maybe most people wouldn't anymore."

Are you sure about this? Don't you think that there are many, many people in this world who believe things that are not only without reason, but demonstrably false? This is a huge overstatement of the degree to which most people (and I'm talking about a large majority) use reasoning and logic to make decisions, and it overlooks entirely the capacity of humans to be deluded.

Oh, and Sami's right about proving religion... this is one of the main things that people have to realize before they start arguing the issue. There will always be the cop-out answers, the self-preserving vagueness, or if all else fails, the radical skeptics, to make "proving religion false" impossible to do satisfactorily for all people. The aim of these discussions is to show whether things are reasonable, or not. Consider a murder case for which there is not overwhelming evidence; the objective is proof "beyond a reasonable doubt." It's not expected that someone will come out with "proof"; what you have to work with is evidence and reasoned logic.

But, I disagree about the letting people live and think how they want bit. Freedom of speech, thought, and expression are one thing, but there certainly are cases in which much suffering and injustice is caused directly by certain beliefs and the actions that can only result from such beliefs.

^^point noted, that the majority of conflict to happen in the world since the dawn of time, has been based around what invisible man in the sky your warship.

hell, kings used to say they were granted divine right, god WANTED them to rule... then of course, there would be war over who god was REALLY wanting to lead, and shit like that...

if since the dawn of time, everyone said "an invisible guy made us, but he made us all equal" and just left it at that, i think there would be no war. but everyone believes so earnestly that their invisible man is the right one, so they kill each other.

in all honesty, i believe if you follow a religion, you are going to hell. Why? because if you follow a religion, you are not accepting of people for their beliefs... Is that something god would really want?

and if you say you accept everyone for their beliefs, keep this quote in mind:
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Too bloody right.

wait... you disagree with allowing people to think what they want?? Suffering will exist forever, and not letting people think what they want is gonna help calm suffering???
You are getting into taking away the right to think now, im not debating that at all...

"Freedom of speech, thought, and expression are one thing..."

Don't worry, I'm not suggesting The Matrix :p

meh, i read the part before that where you said that you disagree with lettine people live and think how they want.

Well, sometimes I wish I had all the answers and could prove my beliefs and such but then again if I could do that there would be an incredible amount of responsibility I would have to account for. I would probably have to dedicate every waking moment of my life to said responsibilities in order to have done well.

Even though I do indeed think that my faith is the correct one despite anything I may have heard to dissuade me from that, I do not hate people of other faiths. I believe what I believe because I choose to. Yes I have been raised in a Christian environment, but, if i wanted to renounce my beliefs I certainly could.

Terraptus2 wrote:

Ass goddam mother fuckers Piss off suck a dick. i win you lose.

terra this is a religion shoot off calm down

Of course I didn't ACTUALLY post that in case any one took that seriously.

My response to that is: lol XD

Religion, in my opinion. is subliminal propaganda.

In part, certainly.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/

some quotes from this site to show why i would NEVER want to go to heaven with these people..

""Serial killers, government tyrants, academic liberals, Catholic priests, politicians, Mormon Church higher-ups, Jewish rabbis, environmental extremists, communists, religious heretics, mass murderers, occultists, spies, and the Illuminati share something hideous and grotesque in common. Almost all are homo-sexual. ""


"Santa is the imposter who has replaced Jesus Christ in the hearts and minds of millions of innocent little boys and girls."

"the Pope is the vicar of Hell. The Pope is the representative of Satan! The Catholic Church is straight out of the pits of Hell. " judgmental much??


thats all im gonna post.. check the site out though.. some of the ignorance on there is really funny =p

well i was looking at it some more, in the music catagory...

did you know:

Michael Jackson, the beach boys, The Beatles, queen, the backstreet boys, Brittany spears, Prince, Aerosmith, Elton John, The Killers, Madonna, The Rolling Stones, The Dixie Chicks, Beyonce, Dolly Parton, Johnny Cash, AND Elvis were ALL SATANISTS?!?!?! xD

this site is really amusing =p