Found some epic replays on a usb.

So as I was going through some of my files I came across a flash drive that had war3 on it. It contained a folder marked chao replays from cha 3d 1.23 /Char final having a total of like 6 or so replays. About 4 out of the 6 contain really good back and forth action. About 2 of which where the difference between winning and losing was like 1 kill. The interesting part is I downloaded them from the ent gaming site so they have the bonus and seeing the chat from both sides as the game is running. Which works like a running commentary of sorts. Shame my Internet (or maybe its my computer that) sucks other wise I'd totally upload them on you tube or something. Oh well... ah the memories ^_^

nice; if you want them uploaded, you can email them to me seandarlin14@hotmail.com

I have a pretty fast upload speed and can put them on youtube for you.

Really? Cool I'll tell you what um I'll send you the 2 vs 2 which was won by 2 kill's difference. Score at the end being 16 kills to the losing teams 14 kills.  Extra info on that is...

Orimis:Chaos Knight (Beetles,Hex,Flash Heal, Critters)
&
Random: Necromancer (Over Powering, Hex, Skeletons, Shackles)

vs
Wrath: Prince of Light (Storm Bolt, Divine, Frozen Orb, Death Orb)
&
Lost: Troll Axe Master (Tentacles, Sonic Boom, Darkness, Avatar)

Hmm, Just looking at the line-up, I am curious how you and orimis could even consider losing; it may take me a bit to get it uploaded; I need to find a reasonable resolution to record at so it isnt a 1GB file; but can also be seen ><

Yea looking back on it there were a lot of errors. For the life of me I can't make sense of wraths item build path. Both Wrath and Me should of gotten cloak of the hidden. Both Orimis and Vodka started with bombs... Vodka seem to be having a little more success with it then orimis did though.

Analysis notes on game play.
Random
On my build divine shield would of been a lot more useful.
I should of been a lot more aggressive after I had shackles.
(Worse case scenario for my build aside from mana vortex would be eating a stun to the face, or receiving massive amounts of dps while channeling) Divine shield deals with both those cases quite nicely. Still with a build like this you either win early or lose later...

Orimis
Summons greatly hinder a melee hero's dps potential for they often block them from being able to deliver damage. In this case Orimis would of been better off going Storm Panda instead Chaos Knight. In his early game he could of gotten a bit of an edge on wrath had he micro his beetles to farm his bottom camp while he was stealing wraths bottom camp with bombs. Flash heal is a very mana taxing skill and to be used on an agility hero... Ultimately you have to wonder would he had been better off going Rejuvenation?

Team 2's
Line up isn't necessarily countered entirely by summons. Of course this is merely theory craft but they could of countered us hard by going Large Goblin Bombs upgraded into Massive Goblin Bombs. Clearing the summons all they'd have to do is sonic boom us apart stun,tents,frozen orb, and hero physical dps = Quick 2 on 1 duels. Mean while this would buy time for one of them to kill the fire boss to counter us for the later part of the game. For one of them could get the lava axe and the bomb user could upgrade Massive Goblin Bombs into Fat man and sell it to make their money back on the bomb investment. Of course this would require a bit of luck on their part and could prove to be a bit too taxing on farms and levels. Another question is who should get the bombs and or should they share the difference of the cost. All wrath needs to run his combo is crown of ages + cloak of the hidden.

Here is my theorycraft on the situation; as I have actually played a similar lineup in my day; on either side of the coin.

First, Build concepts:
Ormi, there is nothing about this build that goes together except chaos knight and flash heal. Hex isnt bad, since he is an instant cast hero. However, you both have hex, a single target disable with one of the worst duration/cd ratios of all disables. Best for 1v1 games. IT isnt until level 10+ that hex really shines. I think swapping beatles for tents or wolves (for shared aura) would have been a great choice; and then using sonic boom or divine (forcing an opponent to target your summons). The summons do work well to allow you to slip off and quickly heal yourself of an ally. Personally, I would consider mana shield for a build like this; in a team game. You would be able to keep all allies alive while being invincible.

Random: Given the team lineup, and suggestions above: I would suggest sonic boom over hex or divine. Sonic boom would allow time for your summons to deal damage, while being unable to take damage. IF ormi went sonic boom also, that would be amazing down time against your opponents. Leading me to my next though, "Goblins over skellys" Sticking to the concept of letting your minions deal damage while the other team is immobalized, gobbies would be able to spawn once or twice before opponents could start damaging them. They also move faster, and are harder to target than skellies.

Wrath: No idea how he managed to farm well enough with that lineup. sure, bombs are nice; but even later game, frozen orb sucks at eveeything but boss kills. gank him on bosses (use summons to eat orb damage, so he cant kill boss). that said, making it to late game, you got 3 disables and a skill that kills bosses well and eats AMS shields.

Lost: The most stable build of the group; a classic you could almost call it. I have seen variations of this a dozen times over, and it is just a solid build. really, the only solid build of the game, the rest are fringe builds. My only thought is "darkness"? unless you get 10 points into it, it is only "meh" sad to say. I would only put 1 into avatar, leaving a lot to go into sonic boom; making for a very powerful mid game disable. A misc skill though, man, a good 1 pointer would be so much better. I would say even a 3 point rejuv early, to force that light orb, would make an auto-win early game; to carry the rest.

Game Notes:
WW goes a long way with the setup random was using; you can ringwalk after you start a channel; forcing a gem of truesight to counter you (though sonic boom will hit you while invis, you can target that guy). Beatles cannot be used in duels; so in an organized 2v2, do not use them. Use them in an organized 4v4 or 6v6, where their creep stealing ability will be worth it.

Looking into the farm vs late of this game, Wrath was the late game of his team; meaning that it was actually an alright choice for them both to use bombs. EXP is fully shared; so even if 1 of them had money for bombs, they should still be giving gold back and forth. Wrath should heckle, all early and mid game; with a WW cloak. run over, scare off the competition, and bomb steal their creeps. Lost would just be a farming machine; main leveling tents and auto attacking. He really doesnt need bombs.

team 1, I would def. call ormi the late gamer of the group; with that flash heal. What is the healing on that? like 3X more than holy light? This is why a better offensive would have been... better. Something with more late game potential than beatles (without puppet and endurance). Random has a good build for farming fast, however, with opponents throwing bombs, they can wreck his summons fast and KS him.

While team 1 holds the power due to its early game strength; I can see how team 2 makes a strong comeback. I think it would be interesting to watch the game again, with my suggested build proposals above!

Glorn2 wrote:

Here is my theorycraft on the situation; as I have actually played a similar lineup in my day; on either side of the coin.

First, Build concepts:  
Ormi, there is nothing about this build that goes together except chaos knight and flash heal.  Hex isnt bad, since he is an instant cast hero.  However, you both have hex, a single target disable with one of the worst duration/cd ratios of all disables.  Best for 1v1 games.  IT isnt until level 10+ that hex really shines.  I think swapping beatles for tents or wolves (for shared aura) would have been a great choice; and then using sonic boom or divine (forcing an opponent to target your summons).  The summons do work well to allow you to slip off and quickly heal yourself of an ally.  Personally, I would consider mana shield for a build like this; in a team game.  You would be able to keep all allies alive while being invincible.

I don't know mana shield & flash heal on agility seems kind of underwhelming. Reading this post made me consider the idea though I actually grown a liking to Magic Barrage/Shock Wave, Sonic Boom, Flash Heal, Speed Burst, Demon Spawn. Both sonic boom and demon spawn create room for you to flash heal allies/self and you can even flash heal your demon should you need to. On the plus side it's one of those builds that lends itself to almost any strategy. Although Mana Flare would tear it a new one but imo it practically already auto pawns Chaos Knight/Storm Panda as it is.

Glorn2 wrote:

Random:  Given the team lineup, and suggestions above:  I would suggest sonic boom over hex or divine.  Sonic boom would allow time for your summons to deal damage, while being unable to take damage.  IF ormi went sonic boom also, that would be amazing down time against your opponents.  Leading me to my next though, "Goblins over skellys"  Sticking to the concept of letting your minions deal damage while the other team is immobalized, gobbies would be able to spawn once or twice before opponents could start damaging them.  They also move faster, and are harder to target than skellies.

Hmm maybe but with opponents with experience I'm fairly sure they can eliminate them before they have a chance to multiply in duels. At least with skeletons you already have a ton of them and there's no chance of being screwed over by the prd gods.

Glorn2 wrote:

Wrath:  No idea how he managed to farm well enough with that lineup.  sure, bombs are nice; but even later game, frozen orb sucks at eveeything but boss kills.  gank him on bosses (use summons to eat orb damage, so he cant kill boss).  that said, making it to late game, you got 3 disables and a skill that kills bosses well and eats AMS shields.

The beauty of having an ally that knows what they're doing. That and having an opponent with slow starting farmers help a lot (chain light,beetles,etc) Farms at about the same speed give or take as those.

Glorn2 wrote:

Game Notes:
WW goes a long way with the setup random was using; you can ringwalk after you start a channel; forcing a gem of truesight to counter you (though sonic boom will hit you while invis, you can target that guy).  Beatles cannot be used in duels; so in an organized 2v2, do not use them.  Use them in an organized 4v4 or 6v6, where their creep stealing ability will be worth it.

Looking into the farm vs late of this game, Wrath was the late game of his team; meaning that it was actually an alright choice for them both to use bombs.  EXP is fully shared; so even if 1 of them had money for bombs, they should still be giving gold back and forth.  Wrath should heckle, all early and mid game; with a WW cloak.  run over, scare off the competition, and bomb steal their creeps.  Lost would just be a farming machine; main leveling tents and auto attacking.  He really doesnt need bombs.

team 1, I would def. call ormi the late gamer of the group; with that flash heal.  What is the healing on that? like 3X more than holy light?  This is why a better offensive would have been... better.  Something with more late game potential than beatles (without puppet and endurance).  Random has a good build for farming fast, however, with opponents throwing bombs, they can wreck his summons fast and KS him.

While team 1 holds the power due to its early game strength; I can see how team 2 makes a strong comeback.  I think it would be interesting to watch the game again, with my suggested build proposals above!

Yea no doubt but seriously had the idea of bombs to counter summons crossed their minds they could of very easily stomp us with ease.

Me and epic for the longest time (really, for a few weeks, but they were active weeks with a lot of planning and discussing) worked out an agility mana shield build. What we ended up with was chaos knight with flash heal and mana shield. It was actually insanely strong, due to the power of agility to mitigate physical damage through armor (while having low HP) and the power of mana shield to greatly reduce spell damage. The trick was to properly activate and deactivate mana shield to make sure you never ran out of mana, and were never at full mana or health. Though, I feel that demon spawn on the same setup would offer a good stun to let gobbies spawn more, or to allow for a heal window.

I do think though, that you are offering a bit too much to the strength of bombs. Sure, first duel, they can do a number. After that, your goblins have some spell reduction, and more HP. If your opponents want to waste a large bomb, and still have their frozen orb eaten by summons; just so you can re summon them.. why not? I see a lot of people using skellies over goblins for the same reason. The power of goblins is in their greater farming potential; and that big "if" you can get them to split in duel before they die. With your stun lineup, I think they would have had that shot.

Another big thing to mitigate the damage from frozen orb, is images. Having an agility hero on your team; you should have had 2 image items on him; to reduce all orb damage done. A level 15 orb can deal 8500 damage. If that is split 4 ways, it is down to 2125; which is less than a frost nova would deal in the same area. WW also hides you from orb.

You might be right about me putting too much faith in the bombs power. The reason I'm pushing them here is for 2 reasons they wipe summons and damage heroes in the newest edit.  We're talking instant ams wiper on a frozen orb build with the added bonus of wtf pawning your opponents offensive power.

Of course for this to work Wrathtoruin or whomever runs this would have to skip small bombs amd start with tiara and farm straight for large bombs (4500 gold). This is no easy task mind you as he has no farm power what so ever. However his ally is running a build that is not too demanding on gold. Which means for just the start of the game he can get by with just his starting set + a pair of boots and pool all of his gold to wrath.  Large bombs for the first duel...   Massive Goblins by the third....  Possibly the easy win vs. the opposing set up???  
Drop Da Bomb  
YVAN EHT NIOJ

I so want to test the above theory to see if it works too bad it's impossible to get 4 good players on at the same time now or days.

Me, Epic, H, and Charge all play Diablo 3 together.  Maybe we can get together and re-enact this game with our own takes on the builds.

Using weak C, in the older edits when bombs used to hurt heroes.. whew... longer ago than I initially thought... I recall doing this with sami...  In a 3v3, we pooled for large bombs at the start, got the weak C user to level 8 fast (not shared EXP) and took down the fire elemental before the first duel; granting an exceptional orb of fire.  I think we managed to get 2 before the first duel actually.  It made for insane early game farming; then turned into massive bombs.

this was... what, 3 years ago?  And we were all pretty good players back then, and we started the game with this plan, in an edit that allowed for such a strat to work more easily...  I think you could accomplish the same by duel 2 now though.

I DID add a higher AMS shield to the newest game though; didn't I?  I cant recall if I ever went through with it; I wanted to make a build up for am AMS belt and finally a "whatever of the spell god" armor.  I know I didn;t get that far.

*Edit
I tried like 10 times to get a recording of that game; I need to find a better recording device that can screen record at lower resolutions. I am ending up with file sizes that make blu-rays look small (seriously like 5-7 GB)

Maybe although bosses are a lot tougher now then they were back then. You'll definately need something like badger to tank because it will very likely take two bomb charges to kill the fire boss.

You can try getting a Mac. They very generously include a video app which would be perfect for posting video on youtube.

Just out of curiousity are you still unable to play wc3 due to your mac?

Yes as of Mac OS X Lion support of PowerPC apps ceased, so sadly I can no longer play CHA. But from what I understand that really doesn't matter, it seems everyone has moved on. Actually now that I think about it it seems that I'm the only person in my life that uses a Mac, outside of people I know in education, other creative people, a few people in business and thinking people in general. I've debated buying a PC in order to play which I think would be similar to buying a Mac for the purpose of posting a CHA video. But you never know, stranger things have happened.

i still have this replay, it was a good game. Darkness is a really fun skill, and while better suited for 1v1, it still worked really well. I was suprised you and ori weren't more agressive, early-mid game you let wrath and myself double team the fire archon and get 4 exceptional orbs.