Spiked Armor

I find this skill problematic to use, early game, it deals no damage, due to the fact that people deal very little physical damage, late game and mid, though they deal a large amount of damage, the opponent will most likely have some kind of magic reduction making it not deal so much.

helm of the war god, a relatively cheap items seems to have just as effective for damage return.

what i propse is a buff, by making spikes return pure damage, since the damage reflectd is already reduced by your own armor, i dont' think it will be overpowerd, but i just can't see another way about it, other than just boosting the amount of regular armor it gives, as in anything but a 1v1 devotion auara kicks its ass hard core

how does devotion kick its ass hardcore?

spikes damage return, isnt based on the damage you take, either. anyone remember fighting nanny? he had 300 armor, and damage reduction, and you did about 50 damage a hit to him. he had slow, shitty attacks. however, with 14,000 HP and no spell reduction, he would completely destroy you, with his 10% damage return...

I find it hard to believe that your 14000 was destroyed 5 at a time...

Return damage is based on damage dealt; not taken.

Spikes has really good armor; same as devotion. Devotion comes on items though; and devotion doesn't stack.

Against melee, spikes is really strong. In a team game, devotion is usually gotten from items, so people can use a real defensive. End game, when your opponent has 2000 damage, you will counter it with you bonus armor, and from the damage return; forcing them to get a black knights mail; or suffer a shit ton of damage.

I randomed badger a while back, with spiked armor, and some shitty skills that made him unlevelable. My opponent was agility, with no spell reduction. He was about 2X my level, and was one of those guys who think 2000 HP with 400 damage is pro. I had insane armor, and alright HP, and holy light. He quite literally killed himself on my spiked armor. the nanny affect.

devotion as an aura gives way more armor to your whole team then any of the item defensive auras do, especially at lvl 12, and in larger games the effective hp spread over several heros is pretty sick. but you can get damage return from helm that returns damage from both melee and range, making spikes much less appealing...

im not arguing spikes aren't good, im just saying it has a lot of weaknesses.

how about it counters both ranged and melee?

helm only returns melee damage also... there is nothing to return ranged damage. I guess I should add that into the text?

I guess I could make it return ranged damage (gotta look at what the skill is limited to) but it is really strong... Use it in a game against someone who is melee, agree that you will both go melee. It forces your opponent to get spell reduction, or die.

And sure, devotion is better, in a team game, based on a use of teamwork. If that is what all skills were based on, then.. well... 2/3rds of the skills would be gone, and the reaming 1/3rd would be OP. The concept is that some skills are great for different modes and styles of gameplay. a lot of team games are 3 people one each team, playing a 1v1 build. Even for 2v2, against 2 melee players, i would rather have spikes and have my ally get something like hex; then we just get an auroric set later. a 12 point hex is a lot more valuable, IMO, than the 22 bonus armor you'd gain from the devotion aura difference.

i don't know maybe im just prejudice, but a skill that is so geared towards hurting melee, that does nothing to ranged seems kinda lame, its not like ice armor doesn't hurt melee enough, there really aren't any skills that are more effective against ranged, but i can name a whole bunch that are better against melee, like all the kiting skills, ice armor, summons...

i think besides endurance aura there should be some anti ranged skills.

There are lots of anti ranged skills. Soulburn (Mass slow, damage reduction and prohibits spells) Darkness (Evasion, Slow) Storm Bolt (Stun), Death Orb (Stun) Slow Ward, Endurance, Holy Armour (Mass armour and you'll stalemate kiters. Stun Field, Thunderclap, Frenzy...

i think these skills that you named are just as effectivve against melee as they are against ranged with the exception of endurance aura, per haps you mis understood.

i meant some skills are better against melee than ranged, i think there should be some skills better against ranged than melee, not just counters,

Realistically though the only skill type that would be considered as this would be changing all the "on melee attack" to "on attack" with spikes and frost armour.. Well, I'm drawing blanks as to how this would be done

on melee units, i attribute better stats than on ranged units; this is the difference. Say overall, I created some invisible 100 point system for the average unit; between stats, cast times, move speed, armor, mana regen, and BAT. I assign some trivial values to each part of the equation. Then I say, "Alright, you are ranged, you are gonna only get about 90 points, rather than 100, because you are ranged."

If melee had all of the advantages of ranged heroes; then.. well... they would be OP. A melee unit who isnt kitable, is insanely strong against ranged... never noticed that?

glorn you fail....

Glorn2 wrote:

how does devotion kick its ass hardcore?

I randomed badger a while back, with spiked armor, and some shitty skills that made him unlevelable. My opponent was agility, with no spell reduction. He was about 2X my level, and was one of those guys who think 2000 HP with 400 damage is pro. I had insane armor, and alright HP, and holy light. He quite literally killed himself on my spiked armor. the nanny affect.

holy light and spiked are both defensive....

errr; chain heal i mean... i think this is the 3rd time ive done this... cuz... well.. who picks chain heal... honestly...

well i agree the skills are slanted to be better for melee, but giving melee one anti ranged skill would be nice, i thought of an example of one...

cloud aura.

basically the further a unit away from its source the less damage it will deal as a percent. this can be done with a series of coded auras that only appear when a unit is attacked, or you could just make it a triggered skill that scales damage on how close the enemy is. if the enemy is within 200 say make it deal full damage, every 50 units away make it deal 5% less so at 600 or so make it deal 60% of the full damage... just an example

Ranged heroes have to worry more about up hill/down hill when melee don't. It's a big advantage if you can use it right.

it would be ok if it were 1%, as that is what spiked is

and yea, during the duels if your melee and ur against ranged, be smart and let them come to you. if they are lower than you are they have a % chance to miss (this is only during one of the two arenas u fight in)

i agree, that melee heros are no where near underpowered, im just expressing a wish to have some more different skills, like a class that are anti ranged, like we have some that are anti melee... but it was just an idea

i see i seeee... i will think about adding in a thorns aura, that hurts ranged also.. putting it in defensive house. sound decent?


you could also use static shock to return dmg to ranged...

ya, but again it hurts the melee same as the ranged, i want something thats like useless on melee but really good on ranged, kind of like an anti move of the really good on melee, but bad on ranged concept... its more a conceptual idea than an actual idea for a set of moves, but a thorns aura should be misc imo as should spiked armor, as though it does increase defense it still is kinda a passive agressive type spell, but defensive house works... but a thorns aura should be an ult imo

Thorns aura would be slick. Do it!

very powerful though, it would be nice to have a hero aura as an ult

what could a melee unit do to ranged, other than slow them, that ranged couldnt do to them?

Melee has death pulse, immoation, t clap, stun field, all that ranged really cant use very well. IT would be stupid to have a skill that ONLY works against ranged though; because.. random happens? especially since you can no longer see what your opponent picks. You are gonna go out on a limb and pick a skill that may be 100% useless?

At least spiked armor gives you a shit ton of armor.

that true, i guess. was just an idea