Question of the Set Time Period

When should you get an Axe over Sword?

About mid game when your a few kills from winning or if you already crit as a means of skills or whatever.

Yeah, pretty much.

It is very crit dependent; and the type of crit. Ring of the speed demon crit is useless compared to a nice talon crit. Be smart when deciding what is worth more to you.

the more important thing, for anyone out there who doesnt like crunching numbers as much as I do...

In the mid game, axes are generally better. It is based almost entirely on your current damage though. Higher damage will give your crits more potency. On a strength hero, I highly suggest getting a sword over an axe, even in the mid game. By level 30, a strength hero can easily break 1000 damage from stats alone. Strength, in my opinion, gets the best damage from stats of all the classes, in terms of their item tree potency.

On an agility hero, if you can pull off a level 25 axe though, it is a great idea. Why? the attack speed from a sword isnt helping at all. you prolly have crit from ring, or will be getting it. Also, you will most likely have a scepter of the primarch; so having a set amount of damage is much better than a chance to deal more.

INT can go either way in its decision, but I would suggest a staff anyway.

COUNTERS:
what Im sure is completely overlooked, are counters. figure out what your opponent has, items and skills. Damage reduction is best countered by damage from crits. Someone has a stone shield? get a 10% for 3X crit. someone has an uber slow build... Grab a sword for the 50% attack speed buff; it may come in handy.

The main answer i was looking for was the stage of the game. Staff is best by far early, Axe is the best mid, and Sword is best late game. Though of course there are many factors including skill sets and items already in inventory, but as a general guide, getting different weapons and selling at different stages of teh game is a great idea. Getting i Gaia staff on AGI by 2nd duel and selling it later for Sword is a great strat and allows you to run a pretty heavy mana farmer. Getting Sword early on Str allows you to auto attack farmer twice as well as you would otherwise. I'm not saying pub style weapons rush, but if you are falling behind it is much easier to catch up in farming by grabbing cheap damage then by stacking on stats.

Wow didnt realize weapon timing mattered that much

You should take some other factors into consideration as well, as the Frost Fall Nova effect, stone staff mana burn etc etc.

Stone staff mana burn

You have no idea how long it took for me to understand the title.

Well, swords are about crit. Everybody loves crit. If you have a crit skill, then you dont need a sword. Staffs have bash. And Axes are pure damage. If you have crit/bash get a sword

Imo if ur agi you should always get axe over sword. As agi one of your first mid-late game items should be ring of speed demon, which we all know gives crits. Therefore IF your gona get a weapon go for the damage? right?

On str if you rlly want to get a weapon sword should be it, gives crits and damage. you dont rlly need damage as str cuz like said above they get majority of it from stats.

Int get staffs, hp,mp, nukes? bashs? perfect! lol

But still over all i think i would prefer stats over a weapon any day.

Plus axe's arent pure damage they're just reg damage lol.

Well, if we are gonna do this, lets do it the right way...

Rank 1 Weapons:
Magus Staff: 20 damage, 200 mana, 400 life
Magic Sword: 20 damage 15% attack speed
Deadly Axe: 35 damage

It is pretty obvious here that the magus staff is the best early game weapon. The only 1 of the 3 that is BETTER than an orb, for a lot of builds.

Rank 2 Weapons:
Gaia Staff: 70 damage, 500 mana, 600 life, 100% mana regen
Jagged Sword: 70 damage, 30 attack speed, crit 20% for 1.75
Fatal Axe: 135 damage

These 3 items are possibly the best balanced between the 3. a 20% crit for 1.75 is a 15% boost to total damage output. This raises the swords damage to 80, putting you 55 short of the axe. You would need ~350 damage for the damage part of the sword to equal the axe. However, mid game, attack speed is very important. I cannot add it into the equation, but weigh it in as you would like. For an agility hero; the axe is better IMO. The staff is still the best for anyone spell heavy though.

Rank 3 weapons:
Eternal Staff: 200 damage, 1000 HP, 1500 mana, 25% bash for 150
Eternal Sword: 200 damage, 50% faster attack, crit 25% for 1.75
Eternal Axe: 350 Damage

Again, the axe outdamages the sword. The crit adds ~.19% damage, making the sword ~240 damage. 110 short. If you have about 600 other damage, the sword becomes better. Again, this isnt taking 50% attack speed into account; which is a pretty good boost. The staff has a nice bash though; dun' it? It adds almost 40 magic damage per attack. What do we know about magic? Without reduction, it deals full damage! The HP and mana boost is quite nice also. (I really cant add in the DPS from any spell casting staff) The staff is still clearly the best for most INT heavy builds.

Rank 4 Weapons:
Omega Staff: 400 damage, 2000 life, 3000 mana, 25% bash for 150
Omega Sword: 380 damage, 50% attack speed, Crit 25% for 2.5X
Omega Axe: 710 damage

The staff is really only strong for mana shield builds at this point. The other staffs are still usable by a lot of heroes; but dont compare in damage to the sword or axe. the elemental staffs deal ~80 magic damage a hit from bash damage though. 25% 2.5X crit = .375 (lets say .38) extra damage. Making the omega swords damage 525. we'll round down, cuz we just rounded up. 520 say. Putting you only 190 short! If you have 450 damage, other than the sword, you are out damaging the axe! Not hard to do by this point in the game. This doesnt include attack speed, hopefully you are maxed.

Rank 5 weapons:
Staff of Hades: 900 damage, 25% bash for 400, 6000 damage atma beam
Lightsabre: 900 damage, 60% endurance, crit 30% for 2.5X
Doombringer: 1800 damage

The staff will destroy anyone too idiotic to get magic reduction, and will also help a lot with bosses. The bash is 100 magic damage per attack. The sword/axe is what everyone wonders about though. the endurance is really just for move speed; which is fun. crit equals a 45 (rounded down) % damage increase. For idiots out there, pretend it is 50%, add half of 900 to the 900.... (900+450) using simple math again, you can determine that it is 450 )lets say 500, to make up that 5% we rounded up) and at about 1000 damage the sword and axe are even. How many of you have 3000 damage end game though? with 3000 damage, you gain 900 more damage per hit (on average) than someone using an axe.


CONCLUSION:
Staffs start off the best, but scale into the worst; Swords start off the worst, but scale into the best. Axes provide an extremely basic, solid line right through the stages. Never AMAZING, but never bad.... Until late game, compared to swords... Also, keep in mind that I used the regular weapons; not the elemental weapons. Elemental weapons have less damage! Also, the damage difference between axes and swords isn't as large on elemental weapons, AND the crit is better on elemental swords. Dont forget that elemental staffs have spells on them, better bash chances, and various stats. This set of data is giving axes the best possible chance to win. Use your powerful observation skills to assume how small the difference between elemental weapons is.

***Yeah pretty much. Unless you go for a light or ice talon. They have a 10% chance to crit for 3X; and a very low chance for high damage is always good to add onto almost any build.

For some really quick, rounded out math; Ultimate sword crits versus axe's....

With ultimate swords, you would lose about 1/6th of your crit damage from the sword. take that ~950 required damage to beat out axes, and add 1/6th of its value to itself. ... 150 give or take.

1100 damage outside of the sword, with crit master, will allow you to outdamage an axe wielder. This is a pretty steep cost, and unless you have done the end game boss-fights, or tomb-whored, this seems like a pretty high number to have to go over. But if you've downed rag, then the sword is always better. (that isnt to say you couldnt wield an atma blade with your 1800 damage axe)****



Wow, to think, it has been a full year since I had to explain this last time.

Wow. So it seems staff really only good for heavy caster.

wayyyy tooo generalizeeeeee....

Do you see the big long post I made?

that really long one... right there?

Look up, it is there.

see it now?

See how there are a lot of variables?

See how I was sure to include that they deal spell damage?

Can you not post the above statement as a question?

"So, does the staff suck at auto attacking?"

that would be a valid question.

Making a general remark is bad, stupid, and no way to learn.

Because of this, I am now forced to do more math. I hope you are happy.

=======================================================

Late game is what matters, so, lets start with a late game base, as an example.

A late game staff deals about 80 magic damage per attack.

Lock that fact in.

At max attack speed, you are attacking 2 times per second.

Lock that fact in.

Attacking for 80 spell damage, twice a second, equals out to be 160 spell damage per second.

Let us compare this to frost nova.

Frost nova, rank 12, has a 10 second cooldown, and deals about 1600 spell damage.
you could suggest, that with unlimited mana, you are dealing 1600 spell damage every 10 seconds. A smart man could suggest that, on average, that is 160 damage per second.

See what I am doing here? Pretty basic math. Notice anything about the two numbers given? Rank 12 frost nova, dealing about 160 spell damage a second, tier 2 elemental staff, dealing about 160 spell damage per second?

what has to come into play here is the difference in armor versus spell damage reduction.

Lets assume your opponent has 100 armor and 50% spell damage reduction. 100 armor is equal to +300% HP; or, as some might suggest, 75% damage reduction.

Lets say that you have 1000 damage, and an axe. You are dealing 250 damage per hit. Anyone see how that is working there? 1000-75%=250.
Good.
Now, lets say you have 750 damage, and a staff. 750-75%=about 190. you are dealing 60 less damage per hit. BUT WAIT, WHAT IS THIS?! An average of 80 spell damage per attack, on their 50% reduction, gives you an additional 40 damage.

This makes the grand totals:
Axe: 250
Staff: 230
this does not take into account the fact that staffs will shoot fireballs, or burn your mana. this also does not take into account the fact that staffs give you an ass ton of life or mana.


I am done mathing now.

Well again glorn is beating i think the point earlier to death. Usage of weapons does vary greatly from game to game. Staff is actually really awesome super late, because it gives you magic damage, which unless they get immortals resistance of some kind does not stack up as well. But armor does take a toll super late game... i don't want to get into teh math of it but it still is very powerful late. if you have something like freeze as well (ice) the staff becomes much better overall then axe or sword

I was just meaning for heavy caster. From read both long post, first one again. The weapons are situational. And again after reading staffs still look as to be more benifiecal for a 'heavy' caster. For medium to light casters axes to start with then swords. Per what is said sword suck early but get better late.