Why use Frost Fall?

The shockwave versus breath of fire debate is a long one; and i have heard both sides calling it OP...
Now we gotta add frost fall into this.
Shockwave is much better for ranged heroes, while breath of fire is for melee units. frost fall, is nooby.

Frostfall Mana Cost: anyone know? 90+30 per level or something
Shockwave Mana: 70+20
Breath of Fire Mana: 90+20
Shockwave Damage: 70+60 then +100
Frost Fall: Again, no game in front of me, but i think 60+50? 900 at max level i know
Breath of Fire Damage: 80+50 then +80
Shockwave AoE: 700X150 OR 112500 Square Yards
Breath of Fire AoE: 450X450 OR 202500 Square Yards
Frost Fall: 600 AoE (assume 600X600) 360000 Square Yards
Shockwave Cast Range: 700
Frost Fall Cast Range: 600
Breath of Fire Cast Range: 450
Shockwave Cooldown: 9 Seconds
Breath of Fire Cooldown: 9 Seconds
Frost Fall Cooldown: 13 seconds


Between fire and shock******Those are the stats, decide for yourself which is better. They are both better in their own situations... While breath of fire has a larger coverage of yards, it is worse in every other way! If you have a ranged hero, then most units will come at you in a line, and you can hit all of them with the wave. 1 wave of shockwave hitting an entire spawn is much more powerful than 1 wave of breath of fire hitting a whole spawn. ******
*******This skill decision is another case of "That is easier to use, so it must be better!" Shockwave is the better of the 2 skills, it is just harder to use to its maximum potential! It is better for ganking also, as it has one of the farthest cast ranges, hits in an AoE, and is very low mana and cooldown!*******

Bringing frost fall into an argument it doesnt even belong in.... The range is larger than it would ever need to be. I have never not hit an entire creep spawn with breath of fire. you cannot hit 2 creep spawns with frost fall... so what is the point of all that range? NOOB PROOF. this is a noob skill, intended for noob players who cant aim. The CD is quite a bit higher on this. about a 40% increase on breath/shock. the damage is on par, but still a little lower. The mana cost is higher...

So, again, Why on earth are shaman and grunts using frost fall, claiming it is part of an optomized build? really, at 40% more damage output, there is a lot of ground to be made up between duels. There is a higher mana cost; an unneeded AoE, lower damage, and a larger cooldown.

It is possible to hit two camps but it involves something to draw them either gaudian ward or those defensive summons with taunt. But its too much of an early game strat and easily beaten.

it wouldnt hit 2 full camps; and unlike mets, wouldnt kill the camp. any smart opponent would single-cast KS the entire camp from you; which is much worse than simply taking 1 camp at a time.

Hence easily beaten part. But it does hit both sets.

waaaaiiiitttt. both times ive played against u in team games uve used frost fall... also, chain lightning is still better imho

yeah; i admit to using it on occasion. I've used it 5-6 times. especially in team games where I am paying less attention. I also use thunder clap a lot; fire ward, chain light, shockwave (obviously my favorite spell), and on rare occasion barrage or monsoon. I try every spell there is to try. Chain light has gone downhill IMO; it used to be my favorite spell, and was replaced. but it is getting changed to +5% dmg per bounce, so it should be better off.

And it doesn't matter how skilled of a player picks what skill; when the math is put out right in front of you, and all skill is taken out of the equation, frost fall is worse than the other 2 spells by a pretty strong number. (40%+)

frost fall hits air which shockwave doesnt, frost fall hits more opponents in duels, you can only cast as much mana as you have available, making a faster cooldown not much of an issue.

maybe add slow effect to frost fall?

I really like kjc's idea, a 15% slow would be sick.

why add a slow affect to a skill that everyone feels is fine? It isnt awful, it is just a noob skill. Why make a skill better than the others and the easiest to use? Generally, the easier it is to use, the weaker it is.
And good point, it is better for large game pvp, due to the AoE.

but after the first duel, you should have enough mana to cast other spells more than once; making frost fall once again, fall behind. You cant say a 40% slower CD isnt an issue, simply because if you run outta mana in a duel, it doesn't matter what you cast. Creeping is an issue, and anyone smart would keep enough mana on hand to cast their spells.

Breath of fire hits air; has a lower cooldown, lower mana cost, and more damage.

I dont plan to change this; noob skills are easy to use. I just found it hilarious how almost everyone is posting a "good build" using frost fall; and talking about how awesome it is.

In 4.0 you might be able to form a stronger argument for it, because creeps are spread out more in their spawns; but in 3.1 you got nuttin'.

but using Frost Fall in a Frozen Iceland is not really effective logically speaking is it?

it i compleatly logical. the chards would be more frozen, thus there effectiveness would be higher, though the fct that they are could wouldnt matter, as opposed to in 3.1, where all the creeps are used to heat, not cold.

Ever go snowboarding? Just because you are on the snow doesn't mean face planting doesn't hurt :p Just like running into a tree while in the woods hurts. I think it is the hellish landscape you wanna watch out for; that shit will melt before it hits the ground!

Well I dont feel like getting into a huge debate over the skill I do find it however to be one of the best Top Lane Skills you can use simply because how spread out they are. Breath of fire requires you to draw in some agro before you can hit them all, Shockwave pratically the same thing. Pretty much the same story with a good deal of the other nuking skills this one pretty much works extremely well for top lane farming. And even after you draw the agro to aim the skill you want there, there is always 1-2 creeps staggering back that you could miss from time to time.