Formulas to Prove Answers Wrong

After looking up the facts about many things, rather than taking the word of peoples claims, I have found some interesting facts...

1.1 Evasion Myths

There are a lot of myths for Evasion, including those :

Quote:
A unit with 50% evasion has 50% more hp.
Totally wrong. If 50% evasion does 50% more hp, 100% will do :

Quote:
A unit with 100% evasion has 100% more hp.
Won't it?


Also, there is a Myth that Evasion isn't stackable. It is since you can try to add as many evasion you want, they will all stack. But 2x 15% evasion isn't 30% evasion, the formula X+Y=Z doens't work.

Remember with Evasion : A missed attack that deal splashes stills dealing damage. It deals 50% of normal damages.


1.2 Calculating Effective Hp for Evasion

The formula you can use to calculate the effective hp for evasion is :

a = b*(100/(100-c))*(1+(d*e))

a = Effective Hp
b = Base Hp
c = Evasion Percentage
d = Armor
e = Armor Multiplier

But, wait. You do not know yet what is Effective Hp. It is the total damage a unit can handle before dying, excluding hp regeneration, excluding Spells, and damage modifiers (example : piercing vs divine, magic vs heavy...).

If you are using a hero to calculate the formula, it will do that formula :

a = (b*c)(100/(100-d))*(1+((e*f)*g))

a = Effective Hp
b = Strength of Hero
c = Hp given per Strength Point
d = Evasion Percentage
e = Agility
f = Armor per Agility point
g = Armor Multiplier

***In CHA, The Armor Multiplier is .04***

1.3 Effective Hp vs Base Hp

You can think that Effective Hp is better than Base Hp, but it can be sometimes wrong.

Quote:
Effective Hp Demon Hunter Lv 1 = 830 Hp
Base Hp Demon Hunter Lv 1 = 575 Hp
We will divide Effective Hp by Base Hp, and it will return a decimal value :

c = a/b ~ 1.4438
a = 830
b = 575
c = Spell Multiplier Dealt

With that "c", every spell that is focused on the hero will take :

e = d*c

c = Spell Multiplier Dealt
d = Damage Dealt of the Spell
e = Total Damage

So, the demon hunter with level 1 evasion will take (Damage*1.4438) damage from abilities. So does healing abilities.


Because that new value we called "c", the hero is less powerful against abilities (but if we do not learn evasion it still with only 575 hp without any multiplier), but can fight better against weapon battles (melee or ranged battle without any spell). Also, Heal and Holy Light powers are increased.

g = f*c

c = Spell Multiplier Dealt
f = Healed Amount

-> g = 25*1.4438 ~ 36.095 hp (heal)

-> g = 200*1.4438 ~ 288.76 hp (holy light)

g=f*c works only for weapon battles.


1.4 Stacking Evasion

Evasion is stackable, formulas can be found in these links :
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/show...44&postcount=9
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/show...30&postcount=5
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/show...65&postcount=6


2.1 Critical Strike Myths

There are a lot of myths for Critical Strike, including those :

Quote:
When a blademaster learns critical strike to level 1 he deals 2/0.15 (~13.33333....) more damage.
Quote:
When a blademaster acquires a Searing Blade he can't use the item critical strike.
The second myth is totally wrong, and there can be multiple critical strikes at same time, dealing a powerful hit.

We will see the first myth in some minutes.


2.2 Calculating Damage per Second

The formula used to calculate Dmg/s is :

a = ((b+c)/2)/d

a = Dmg/s
b = Minimal Damage
c = Maximal Damage
d = Attack Cooldown

This formula is easy to understand, it calculates the average of min~max damage, then divide it by cooldown.


2.3 Calculative Effective Attack Speed

The formula used to calculate the Effective Attack Speed is :

a = b*(100/(100+c))

a = Effective Attack Speed
b = Base Attack Cooldown
c = Bonuses

Bonuses are all values mixed in a number, which is equal to the sum of attack speed bonuses.

To calculate the Effective Attack Speed of a hero, you should use this formula :

a = b*(100/(100+c+(d*(e*100))))

a = Effective Attack Speed
b = Base Attack Cooldown
c = Bonuses
d = Agility
e = Attack Speed Bonus per Agility Point

Bonuses get less valuable as you get more it. Because that, you may want to boost an another effective value.


2.4 Calculating Damage/s or Damage/Attack with Critical Strike

To calculate the Damage per Second with Critical Stirke, this formula will do it :

a = (b*(100/(100+c+(d*(e*100)))))*(((f*g-1)/100)+1)

a = Damage per Second
b = Base Attack Cooldown
c = Bonuses
d = Agility
e = Attack Speed Bonus per Agility Point
f = Critical Percentage
g = Critical Multiplier

If you want to calculate the Damage per Attack with Critical Strike, you will go on this :

a = (((b+c)/2)/d)*(((e*f-1)/100)+1)

a = Dmg/s
b = Minimal Damage
c = Maximal Damage
d = Attack Cooldown
e = Critical Percentage
f = Critical Multiplier


2.5 Calculating Damage on a Double Critical Strike

You can simply use this formula to calculate that :

a = (b*c*d...)

a = Total Multiplier
b = First Multiplier
c = Second Multiplier
d = Third Multiplier
...

Example : We have 4 critical strikes that deals respectivly 1.6x (b), 2.1x (c), 3.6x (d), and 2.6x (e).
Leading us to : a = (1.6*2.1*3.6*2.6) = 31.4496x
We can also calculate for each Critical Strike.
a = (b*c) = 1.6*2.1 = 3.36x
a = (b*d) = 1.6*3.6 = 5.76x
a = (b*e) = 1.6*2.6 = 4.16x
a = (c*d) = 2.1*3.6 = 7.56x
a = (c*e) = 2.1*2.6 = 5.46x
a = (d*e) = 3.6*2.6 = 9.36x
a = (b*c*d) = 1.6*2.1*3.6 = 12.096x
a = (b*c*e) = 1.6*2.1*2.6 = 8.736x
a = (b*d*e) = 1.6*3.6*2.6 = 14.976x
a = (c*d*e) = 2.1*3.6*2.6 = 19.656x


2.6 Calculating the percentage for a Double Critical Strike

The formula used to calculate a Double Critical Strike is :

a = (b*c*d...)

a = Percentage to perform the Double Critical Strike
b = First Percentage
c = Second Percentage
d = Third Percentage
....

Like Calculating damage on a Double Critical Strike.

Example : We have 3 critical strikes of 15% each, which leads us to :
a = (0.15*0.15*0.15) = 0.003375 = 0,3375%
And also.. : a = (0.15*0.15) = 0.0225 = 2.225% (2 criticals)


3.1 Bouncing Attack Myths

In Battle.Net, only a small amount of people research the Upgrade Moon Glaive, whereas a lot of people like learning Chain Lightning with the Far Seer.

Why? We will explain it in some seconds.


3.2 Calculating X's Bounce Damage

The formula used to calculate the damage dealt at a fixed bounce of your wants, you will go on this :

a = b * (c/100) ^ (d)

a = Damage Dealt at bounce d
b = Base Damage of the ability
c = Damage Reduction of the ability
d = Fixed bounce number you wanted

Example : A huntress attacks multiple units, dealing 17 damage to first target and 50% damage is reduced per bounce. We will find the damage at the second bounce.

We use the formula a=b(c/100)^d, a=17(50/100)^2 = 17(0.5)^2 = 17(0.25) = 4.25

The second bounce of the huntress deals only 4.25 damage to the third unit that is hurted by the moon glaive.


Whereas with Chain Lightning level 3 at the lastest bounce deals :

a=180(85/100)^7 = 180(0.85)^7 = 180(0.3205) ~ 57.703859

Chain Lightning deals at the 8st target around 57.703859 damage, which punishes easily a worker for only 120 mana.


4. Damage Dices

Damage Dices are used to generate a random value to extend the damage power. It is wrote like this formula : xdy

x = Amount of Dices
y = Sides per Dice

And, it is read as "x y-sided dice".

To calculate the minimal and maximal damage of a base damage, we will use this formula :

a = c + d
b = c + (d*e)

a = Minimal Damage
b = Maximal Damage
c = Base Damage
d = Number of Dices
e = Sides per Dice

***Credit to Chocobo***
All of his formulas are cited and proven to be true.

fucking... nerd.

Lol, I didn't do this math, you kidding me?! I got a C- in Trig; just enough to never have to do math again!

but thanks for contributing to the conversation!

the links for the evasion stacking are dead links, and that was what i was the most curious about in this entire post ><

hmmm; was it?

Well, the links were all proven by Aceheart; who is arguably the best WC3 coder in the world. He makes anything me or icefrog, or any other game maker ever did look pale.

I will send him a message on thehelper to see where his sources came from if you really want. The original link was kinda old, and he had a handful of other sources also, which I didnt include.

Anyway, what you can take from it, is that evasion stacks the same way crits do; which is something I assumed for the longest time, until ... someoneeeeee.... started saying they didnt.

This is really helpful surprising I still understand it after not being in school for 3 years.Fucking Physics class

The math seems a tad too complicated for most of us. If you are saying that evasion can 'stack' in a certain way is it possible for someone to miss all the time. Possibly if you have the evasion skill maxed (47%) innate evasion (10%) and various evasion items (i think shroud is 35% cant remember exactly) possibly even numerous evasion items and also combine darkness (about 78% or something near there). I also would question if darkness is considered a spell and someone has weak const does that amplify the miss (possibly give a quick calculation for weak const, i realize it makes spells better but the math seems a tad tough)

I not too sure it stacks the problem with old guides to mechs is theyre often proven wrong. I'm sure he has the math but evasion is extremely hard to prove because well its just about the only true random chance to occure ability out there the rest of them fall victim to pseudo random distributions. Yes I know you can customly make skills random but most dont do that. Seriously if a skill is random to where it can have random bursts of missing 3-4-5-6-7-8 attacks in a row in one instance and then having no attacks miss in another. My point is how can you prove items stack on a skill so random?

To answer the above Evasion counts before blind. So if they dont miss on your evasion they have another chance to miss on your blind. Weak only decreases enemys defense to spell damage it will not increase potentcy of disables, so no longer stuns and misses or slows or whatever.

http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44516&highlight=combat+armor+damage+reduction+multiplier

There is the actual link; click the sources from there to see more math.

And, well, considering the way other abilities stack, i would assume evasion does also.

Why? Evasion, Bash, and Crit are all the same skills (As I have said before) Quite literally, they are the same skill. For bash, you turn crit and evasion off, for evasion, you turn bash and crit off, ect. and by off, i mean set values to zero. That is, it has the same base ID, and you just edit the fields.

^^Read through the pages of replys on that site. What the determination is, is that evasions of the same type will not stack, like the skill, "evasion" and "evasion" having 2 of the same skill doesn't stack, however, different types of evasion will stack. Like evasion, and drunken brawler. Or skill evasion and item evasion; because they are two different skills. (like chain light on a staff, and chain light the skill). However, in CHA, people usually cant stack a hero skill multiple times over. So, if you pick up combat master and then get a 25% evasion item later; you will have 25%+25% evasion. Which is ~44% evasion. OR, with a 35% evasion item, ~51% evasion. As you can see though, the higher it gets, you really lose a lot of possible evasion as they stack; and if you stack the same type, you are hosed anyway.
^^If combat master and evasion were in different houses, you could bring yourself up to about 61-62% evasion though.

For practical reasons, stacking evasion in CHA is difficult, and not really worth it. However, in WC3 game mechanics, it is possible to do; and it stacks the same way crits would; so long as you are using different base abilities.

Also, this link offers a lot of information that may help people with their normal WC3 game, but there is stuff I didn't include because it has no role in CHA.

so if im understanding this right then evasion stacks the same way spell reduction does in the sense that the % you gain is calculated by the % left you ahve to reach 100%, lemme give an example cuz that sounded really confusing
spell reduction, if i have 20% base spell reduct and i get a set armor then it will add 20% of 80 to the total spell reduction, giving me a total of 36% spell reduction
and with evasion that would mean if i have the skill evasion and i pick up a shroud of the theifs god that would give me 35% of 53 which would end up being 66% evasion
if this is so then it would change my whole mentality on evasion, i normally dont get it because i get shroud on every item build and i figure that spiked armor would be the better passive in that case but if they stack then instead of it being a 12% gain to get evasion it would become a 31% gain to get it which is alot better than i originally thought.

This guide was correct when it was posted, in 2006-2007. I suggest trying it, because while when it was posted, it was correct, blizzard may have changed it during a patch. Good way to test, have a friend who doesnt change anything about their build from 1 duel to the next. In 1 duel, have an extra evasion item to replace a current item of similar stats you have.

a 25% difference in evasion should be at least semi-noticeable within a couple of tries.

Warcraft engines are screwy lol. So Evasion and Evasion wont stack but evasion and combat master does?

So an example of this is Evasion + Ring of Speed Demon?

&

Combat Mastery + Shroud of Thief God?

So in a sense stacking evasions work the same way that evasion and blind work?

How will the show lost end?

Are my questions annoying?

Careful, you mentioned the wc wouldn't increase the potency of disables but not all spellls are disables, does this mean that it also won't increase the potency of spells (more damage for example), i would think it wouldn't since a atma beam (or old one) that said it would do 10k damage, seems to do more than 10k with wc (thus increasing the potency of the spell)

to clarify... The spell does EXACTLY what it says it does. That is, it increases SPELL DAMAGE TAKEN by the unlucky souls who have that aura on them. If hex does not deal spell damage, then it is unaffected by this. If darkness does not deal spell damage, then it is unaffected by this. If Blood Bath does not deal spell damage (it doesn't) then it is unaffected by this.

There is a major difference between a "SPELL" and "SPELL DAMAGE" that I believe 90% of the CHA community is overlooking. While yes, the majority of spells that deal damage, deal spell damage; not ALL spells deal spell damage. And not all spells deal damage.

I want to play, not do math. I went to the working links of these btw and they also just give you numbers. Conclusion- if you are not smart or at that age level to have taken the math for these or too lazy or all of the above. Evasion stacks in custom hero arena. However, getting multiple 'Cloaks' of the same evasion is a different story. Stacking different evasion skills and different items with evasion is suppose to work but with decreasing factors instead of the exact percentage stated. But go ahead, try stack them all and get over 100% percent evasion with items and tell me what you get. Thanks.

1.4 Stacking Evasion

Evasion is stackable, formulas can be found in these links :
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/show...44&postcount=9
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/show...30&postcount=5
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/show...65&postcount=6

so item evasions stack? like shroud of thief god and ring of speed demon could be used together for their evasions effectively? if so could we get the evasion spell, shroud of thief god, ring of speed demon, darkness, and a few other evasion items i forgot and i would be uber?

just wondering...if u put shroud of the theif god in front of the skill eva does it increase or decrease ur overall eva?

@ Biki and Britlind

just my theory

example #1

second skill = evasion, 47% + item with 35% + hero with 10% evasion

1st 47% miss = 53/100 hits.

2nd 35% miss /53 = 18.55/53 miss = 34.45/100 hits

3rd 10% miss /34.45 = 3.445/34.45 miss = 31.005/100 hits

= 69 evasion instead of 92 ?

I am just guessing here. Same answer regardless of order, prove me wrong.

well; it works the way crits do; per say.

However, only evasions with a different base order ID can stack.

Few people can figure out which skill is based on what; and really, there are only two "different" evasions in the game. Considering it is nearly impossible to test which ones stack; lets assume that for CHA; they dont stack. I am too lazy to go into the spells, look up their ID's and then figure out which ones could be obtained in the same game.

I just wanna know is it possible for skill evasion to stack with shroud of the thief god and if so how much evasion total and if there is any tricks needed to make it work

A very small question: how much hp regen per point of str?

zero. The minimum was .01%; which... well; equates to WAY too much regen once you hit 1000+ str

Very basic question, i don't really understand the formulas and everything, but just wondering if u have maxed eva as a skill, then the shroud of the thief god on top of that, does ur eva actually decrease? or does it increase and by how much? - would it be like the 47% of the left over 65% + 35%? soo.... 65.55% eva?

there are only 2 ways to stack evasion in this map, u either need evasion and then get the ring of the speed demon or you need combat mastery and get a shroud of the thief god.
the combat and shroud equals out to be about as much as level 12 evasion and the evasion with speed demon is a lil over 60%

^^ what he said. Glad someone payed attention.