Changes in Immortal's items

This is in regards to your comment on the revolution's bugs topic glorn. You say you plan to make every immoral item require tetra essence. This and the changes to Immoral shield i don't understand.

Beforehand i want to say tho, i really like addition of shields, ive had a lot of fun trying them out. Illidan immolation and fire shield with weak const is fun for owning pubs. Anyways.

Immoral item changes will over complicate already complex items by adding another item made of 5 elemental drops to 5 high level items in most cases. In doing this you're really going to limmit a players options in what items they can make (only 6 inventory slots), disuade newer players from even bothering to learn the game when every item has a billion parts. As well as the fact the game doesn't last as long anymore, this would cause 90% of games to end without any immortal's items created at all.

On the shield change; if you're going to make the shield cost another 45k to make, you might as well remove it from the game all together. Before the change it would take me 4-5 duels to make it, now it takes about 7-8. By this time a good opponent could have mask or boots and a high level weapon, or the game has already ended. Basically meaning, if you go for shield you lose, so don't bother. (i challenge anyone to do a shield build against opponents of equal skill and win.)

I just don't see the logic in your changes... Unless I've misunderstood your post. Although it seemed quite clear to me>.>

to clarify:

Immortals shield gave.. what... 330 all stats, 200 damage reduction, and 60 armor. All of this for the low-low price of 65,000 gold.

Immortals mask, gives... 330 all stats, 100 regen, and 60 armor. (plus atma beam) for nearly 2X the cost. About 120,000 gold.

Immortals boots give... 300 all stats, all the auras, 10,000 HP, and 75% magic reduction... Again, for ~120,000G

By adding the shield to the recipe on immortals shield, along with 95% magic damage reduction... it is... 330 all stats, 200 damage reduction, 60 armor, and 95% spell reduction. For the cost of 110,000G

In terms of stats, you were better off making 2 shields, than 1 of any other immortals item.

If you want to argue that immortals items shouldn't use tetra essences, then that is a valid argument. However, arguing that the most powerful item in its price range shouldn't have been made similar to other items in its price range, is silly.

***Keep in mind***
I want tetra essences in all immortals, that way they ARE difficult to make. This causes more players to have to follow the "quest line" if you will, and possibly even use teamwork to take out more bosses in less time.

All items having tetra essence added to them, will have a small increase to their stats. ...except mask, because I was planning to nerf atma beam. So, i will leave it the same, and call it a deal.

Also, I will be making rare drops from archons, that are used in item recipes. I may simply allow archons to drop fragments of a tetra essence. That is, if you get 3, they combine into an essence. (about a 30% drop rate on archons)

The game was never intended to take long enough to make multiple immortals. If you get 1, then good on yeh! Get 1, and get a good weapon, and 2 people can do the whole rag quest without dying.

Now, with similar prices between the immortal items, people wont say "get shield" which was my general rule. "always get shield first, it has the best stats for its cost by far!" Ive told that to hundreds of people. And quite frankly, that isnt much different than the 5.4 days when it was, "put every point into bonus stats" Sure, it was balanced because all good players did it; but we need more options!


In conclusion:
If a vast majority of people are against the change, then the shield will still use another item to makes its cost ~110,000G. Considering having a shield is a good idea now, and that immortals shield is a shield... it is a pretty decent item to add to it. However, with 65,000G for better blocking than any elemental shield, better armor than all but the stone shield (by 5) and 330 all stats, which shields completely lack; there is no reason to spend 45,000 on a rank 2 elemental shield.

Now, you can make an elemental shield for the blocking, and then move on to mask, boots, ring, ECT.

im with glorn i think that everyones just bitching because they arent used to it
im pretty sure i was the only one who used to stack immortals shields consistently and every time i did it i won regardless of whether i had been countered or not, just because of how rediculous it was.

antoinio ftw. you realize that that is just going to make the sheilds even more under used right?

more underused?? its the most used immortal in the game =/

yea if you think this will make shields in general less used, your hypothesis is completely backwards.
if people cant get the damage reduction from the op immortals shield, they will start to look in other areas for it, such as hardened skin or elemental shields.
and if your saying that immortals shield is underused, i am gonna laugh at you everytime i see you

Yeah id say 95% of teh time i would go shield, it was overused for sure. But now it's reversed, and will be sued 5% of the time. I think you should just add the lower level shield for like 15k extra, and nerf dmg reduc or something.

The tetra essence idea wouldnt be so bad if it was say any 3 elementals instead of 5, but id still prefer it as it is now.

well, as said above; what if I make like, a 30% from from archons; that can be combined into tetra essences? So, kill archons for their gold, and pick up "tetra essence shards" along the way. which can be sold for bonus gold, or combined for the essence, obviously.

that way, you can elemental farm for them, or archon farm?

Either way, I want to bring some more action onto elementals and archons; other than trying to gank someone from their first elemental kill.

If all immortals items require the essence, then; well, people will be FORCED to get them; and then pick out a choice immortals item from there.

i_4got_my_user wrote:

antoinio ftw. you realize that that is just going to make the sheilds even more under used right?

"sheilds" many of one. the elemental sheilds. no shit the immortals sheild is most used.... other than the immortals ring it is the only immortals item that i have seen in a pub game. i have gotten at least one player in e ery oub game that i have played to at least get the beginner sheild, but by the middle of the game they end up selling it because they say that since it doesnt give stats its pointless. many people dont realize how power the damage block is, or anyof their passive abilities.

i think that tetra would be alright if you added items to archons that combined into it, but prismatic... i think is a little much.

I dont mind the changes too much but double the cost of Iron aka demonic gaunlets really? Ugh why must all the finacial burden go to that item? Can you perhaps change it? I got an idea Frost,Fire,Corruption Recipe (??? Gauntlets) Which gives perhaps a comprimise +250 damage crit nuke bla bla, and Lightning,Stone, HS Orb (is that still in the game?) +250 damage chance to bash whatever specail ability (??? Gauntlets) Omega Orb, Tetra Immortals Gloves. Seriously Immortals gloves where already near never bought but making the demonic cost 50k will make just about nobody buy them which is a shame because this with wolves or gobs was so bad ass.

Talon Grade weapons are like what 30k gloves are now near 50k???

Eh Im tired time to go to sleep end rant lol.

what, whatch'a mean?
Demonic Gauntlets havent changed. They are all of the gauntlets combined.

Immortals Gloves are the same as they used to be (in 3.1 and 3.0) also.

Way back in the day, it was Demonic Gloves, Omega Orb, Tetra Essence. I added Jagged Sword to the mix (6000G???) in 3.0, and added 200 damage to the gloves. Cheapest 200 damage in the game.

If anything, I expect them to be used more frequently; especially with the rise in summoning builds. I am sure I am one of the few people to ever use summons with the 200% endurance aura. You can pretty much break the game with goblins attacking faster than heroes. And perma bash wolves.

I didn't add a tetra essence to this combo, because it has always needed one. Now that you need one anyway, and this is the easiest to obtain, and gives amazing stats for its cost; it should be used a lot more.

You know its extremely weird I have almost no memory of this. Well theyre cost kind of went up originally it was Fire Gauntlets, Frost Gauntletd, Lightning Gaunlets which made Iron and they where something like 7500 x 3= 22500 now you added on 2 more gauntlets which increased it to 39500 for 350 damage +100movespeed, 50% attack 1.75x Crit and Nuke (I forget how much damage) LOL I guess I was trying to suggest making a second set of gloves, which will keep Immortals Gloves aproximately the same cost. Have you ever type something up you literally have no memory of doing? Swear this is really weird.

New Gloves
Iron Gauntlets (Fire,Ice,Lightning) Crit
Demonic Gauntlets (Stone, Corruption, HS-Orb) Bash
Tetra
Omega Orb

I guess that was what I was trying to suggest again weird no memory of typing this.

^^That proposed recipe is still only a jagged sword less than the new one.

It may still be fire+ice+Light, is demonic... I cant honestly remember what I do.. but I dont think I changed any of that. And for 200 damage on the gloves, I would hope anyone is willing to pay another 6000.

2200+4300=6500X5=32500+14000=46500+6500=53000+tetra essence.

It has always had such a high cost, the reason it always seemed so cheap was because of the gold you get while making it...

700 from guard, 2200 from elemental=2900 per essenceX10= ~30,000. So, other than the time invested, you are only paying 23,000. Hit a creep spawn on your way through every time, and you will end up with a lot of pocket change!

Seems im in the minority here but i like that the immortall items take longer to make.

If a game last long enough to get them your not trying hard enough.

I like dragging a game out just to get them but the shield is just too much its clunky and complicated and doesnt contribute to game flow.

u just contradicted urself... explain plz

no he didnt.. he wants tetra in them so that its more difficult to get immortal items, but not the prismatic shield, only tetra.

I want to ask, what was the point of the poll? you just said fuck you to those 9 people and went ahead with the change.

Glorn, i think it's great, in an ideal world we'd all be on our knees blo...I mean thanking the lord above that you have bestowed upon us your great wisdom.

Unfortunately im going to have to be the asshole that wakes you from the dream. Most pub games have about 6 people (3+3=6) Half of them are new or are at least unaware of the changes in the immortal items recipie (Next edit, please put in a reminder so i dont have to listen to "GAWD DAMNIT WHY WONT THIS GOSH DERN IMMORTIL ETIEM COMBINE") even if you had 6 people all trying to farm arcons and elementals at the same time (Unlikely.) there are 9 spots (5 ele 4 arc) and don't forget that some people (Me at least) like to farm the treasure chest. in a game which has evolved into a contest of who can Kill more creeps faster rather then a game of PVP, people arent going to spend a ton of time pvping if they can spend that time grinding to the championship.

So in conclusion, i think this was a great idea, and a good try. Despite my Facetious stabs at your god complex, i don't think you are an idiot for trying this.

However, I must say that this has ammounted to a very small increase in general pvp. By the time you are going to farm the shit for immortal's items youll be able to share the arcons, or you can just run up and 2 shot the elementals and no1 will be able to kill you. All it has done is caused problems for those wanting to build Immortal items (everyone.)

So for an idea that has caused very little progressive change and a whole shit load of inconvience I am officialy suggesting that you kill the baby.

Peace!

so; with a general goal being to increase PVP and once again, shorten general game length... you are admitting that it is doing just that?

Everyone is always afraid of change; the fact that people are forced to PVP more is... fun! When immortals first came out we had to listen to, "Where is the recipe for that? how do you make it?" same thing again; except now the answer is always the same, and all the recipes are in the same place on the map!

Also, what else? It has made buying tomes something to consider. It used to be, after a 3 hour game, you had no free item slots, so you would buy 400k in tomes. Now, it is something to actually consider, as you pointed out.

So, with my goal always being to shorten the game, increase pvp, and make unused items more viable... Didn't all of those things happen?

If I made all immortals items 10,000G I'm sure few people would complain; everyone would stack them, and farm like gods while "lol"ing.

I said, using a total of i think 3 paragraphs, that pvp ultimately will not change...

Quote :

"However, I must say that this has ammounted to a very small increase in general pvp. By the time you are going to farm the shit for immortal's items youll be able to share the arcons, or you can just run up and 2 shot the elementals and no1 will be able to kill you."

Is what I grabbed onto that wasn't straight whining. And, well, it is also the only factual statement you make; other than the fact that it will take noobs a while to figure out the new recipes.

This causes more people to spend time in the field; fighting over creep camps. Now, just like the rag quest; this isn't something that must be done every single game. Hit the +5 on the kill count, and you will get there. If you are playing an EVEN game, you will get there. I don't see the point in people wanting to prolong a game they have already won.

Though this upsets people; I still see a lot of people building up tetra essences to make the new immortals items. If people are still making them, then they must be worth making. You have to kill the archons eventually anyway! By the time you need the tetra essence, it should be easy to down an archon anyway.

Im not a big fan of Upgrader style items but since theyre in items that are near damn impossible to get unless you put faster creep spawn or are deliberately not attacking the other guy for duels fights only I dont think its a big deal. Can Tetra be added to the -45 or 300 mana burn weapons too?

I had considered it for the weapons, but in order to make the weapons; you need to combine 6 essences already; more than a tetra takes. (5)

Quote :

even if you had 6 people all trying to farm arcons and elementals at the same time (Unlikely.) there are 9 spots (5 ele 4 arc) and don't forget that some people (Me at least) like to farm the treasure chest. in a game which has evolved into a contest of who can Kill more creeps faster rather then a game of PVP, people arent going to spend a ton of time pvping if they can spend that time grinding to the championship.

That isn't whinning... that is a partially proven hypothesis, I used actual data and i did not whine... so not sure what you are looking at