Epics New Build Challenge.

Listen up, so since this has been destroying hard, I want you all to figure out how to counter it. Thus far I can't find any life ending flaws. Winner gets a cookie,

Storm Panda
Fire Ward
Divine Shield
Guardian Ward
Bonus Health
Doom Roots

So far, Avatar and Manaflare have been ruled out..

GO

vortex maybe?

vortex counters everything on that list except for divine shield...

Abolish magic can 1 shot any 3 of your abilities.

Avatar with a slow counters it.

Light orb counters 2 of them.


Epic, i have been using the same build, but with demon storm ulti. And well.. I think it would work so much better than roots. It allows you to outfarm absolutly anything. Also, the move speed slow, with wards cast out in front of you; will usually kill your opponent before they get to you. Avatar wishes it countered it; but as a few people know... avatar aint got shit on it. vortex cant kill the tornado either; or take away the extra levels I have gained.

I just wonder where you got the idea for that build? as it is the same as the one I posted 2 days ago <3

Haven't tested with vortex really. All passive vortex could be hurtful..

My problems with vortex though is that if you use, you lose a fair chunk - all your mana with your opponent. So sure I wouldn't be able to toss my second, maybe 3rd round wards down. But your left relatively auto attacking as well. Plus mana potions and regen is a thing to consider. Fireward in duels is optional, nice for extra damage. But the Guardian Ward is the real end your lifer. And I'm pretty sure I can regen enough mana for that before vortex went off a second or 3rd time..

vortex will also kill your ward in 1 shot is the problem though; you might be able to cast it... and in the same 1 second cast time, they will cast vortex again.. killing it...

Actually, I didn't look at that. I got the idea from the game me and you played when you had Death Knight / Guardian Ward. So I toyed with that idea and came up with this.

As for avatar, so far I've been able to outlast it. Vortex like I said above I'm iffy on, still haven't tested it much because Piss was dead set that Mana Flare + Avatar would be my downfall. But I proved that a complete fallacy haha. And ya, abolish magic will destroy 1 ward or get them out of roots. But honestly in all my games I've had abolish magic used on me once... As for light orbs effectiveness against both fire and guardian will have to be tested I guess.. As for Avatar and Slow Kite, might happen ... Probably something few could pull off to make it dominate against this though. Something else me and you will need to test .

I was thinking a decent corrupt flesh build could take care of this as well. but then again I could sink a point into divine shield and grab Itemwalk ring..

Meh, toss fire ward down, wait for vortex then toss guardian ward or likewise. If they don't cast vortex to kill the first it fucks them up. If they do then toss down guardian.

Insert farm skill
Harden Skin
Dont Care
Whatever farm ult
Abolish Magic
???
Profit.

Despite whatever thought you might have, damage reduction does not affect damage from spells. So, hardened skin will not block the DPS from fire ward or roots. However, it will null the guardian wards attacks for most of the game.

What about a mana shield build also though? I mean, your only hope would be to go light orb against it; thus purging your roots. Stone orb for castable burn still has purge though, and you would need to get another orb type to override it. This is 2 item slots for a small mana burn. Mana shield is disgustingly strong against spell damage; this would force you to resort to physical damage. you have nothing in your build to help with attacking, really.

Shot for shot, a mana shield build could beat this build in a pretty even game.

And light orbs are insanely good against wards. And all it takes is for you to avoid roots to be able to outrange wards. At best, you would still have G ward auras; which as nice, but when stacked against the 3 skills your opponent might have.

Also keep in mind, fire ward has 500 range. A 600 range hero with a light orb can kill it while taking minimal damage. Assuming they have a normal castable farm skill, their offensive will out DPS yours. Assuming they have a counter to roots (which everyone should have) that really leaves you with only G ward. G ward is tough as hell though; really hard to bring down, even with a light orb. I think it should be your main leveled skill after level 5 fire ward.

Also, an AoE farmer, on a smart player, will just steal your creeps all game. fire ward is insanely easy to creep steal from. do it twice, and it is GG.

Again, because this is really, identical to my build... I know what weaknesses it has. Light orb, AMS, supersonic ring has this build beat through items alone. The best counter to this build is just a faster farming build. Which is why I use demon storm; because it farms REALLLLLY fast; so the biggest weakness is harder to exploit.

I know for a fact it doesnt but common a simple ams potion more then solves that problem, abolish takes care of roots. Ive already face this build two times today and raped it hard so either this does okay or the people playing it are idiots.

Ya, and Piss brought up a good point of how this build might just fit my play style extremely well. Even thiugh they were tossing counters left right and center, I might have been able to get around it just simply on Player -> Build synergy.

you'll be able to get around it w/ players who dont understand how you play and lack the basic micro skills. basically its something equivalent to to reasoning behind why we as clan members can toss around pubs like it was nothing by randoming

Those of you who beleive you can win any pub just by randoming have never randomed in a public game. If you random when having a friend/clanmate on the same team as you that doesnt count. In other words Im saying your full of crap.

I've done it before and until i get thoroughly stomped i'd like you to keep ur words to yourself... honestly i think its very plausible so long as you use your skills right. frankly it was just a comparison... why waste a post trying to call it crap when it so obviously does not merit one. also epic i just used vortex today and it fucks up wards really badly :/

sorry but for references sake do i know you:? sorry u must have a different in game name

You dont know me and your glib comparison tells me you dont random very often. Your glib statement "we clan members can toss around pubs like nothing just by randoming" is in fact a lie.

I bet if all your clan members were to play 10 random games in pub matches where all pubs can pick their skills alone (as in not teamed with each other) They would lose about 4-6 of those games. I still say your full of crap because I simply dont think all your clan members have enough in game knowledge to consistantly win while randoming while everyone else is free to pick. I still say you sir are full of crap.

My in game name is none of your business.

Any build can counter this its why I didnt post one there are way too many to list.

i would agree not all clan members have enough in game knowledge, but most people who play pubs with me know i random at least 70% of the time... and i don't win all the time, but i do win more than 60% of my random games...

if you wanna put your money where your mouth is come play us in game, and don't make veiled statements about other's skills without proving your own first.

of course every build has counters, if a build didn't have counters it would be the only build and the game would be imba as hell. honestly if you have nothing to contribute to the conversation CAREFULIBITE just stfu plz

take yourself off your throne for a second please, thanks.

I agree that more than half of the clan would lose to pubs if they randomed. Why? well, 1 in 10 pubs is actually pretty decent. 1 in 20 pubs is someones alias. 1 in 20 randoms sucks balls, (I got paladin, MOTW, absorb mana, Restore Mana, Dread Ritual). 3/4ths of the clan couldn't use a build properly that they random. 1/2 of the clan could make a build they random work though. 1/4 of the clan would random a good build, complain that there skills they have never seen before suck; hit level 3 for first duel with 2 farming skills, and ragequit before investing a point into wrath of hell.

^^Off topic, but those are some averages; if you wanna crunch them all together, you'll find... well, I have no clue. But, randoming clannies, based on THEIR ability, will lose about half of their games to pubs. However, Piss has been playing for 3 years, and can usually theorycraft a shitty built into having some merit.... Though his generalizations of the clan as a whole maintaining that ability are quite wrong.

ANYWAYYYYYYS;
Vortex does a good job of beating this, but as with all vortex builds, they can be beaten if you can harshly outlevel and outgear them. As epic has multiple farming skills, and if he used demon storm like I do, even more farming skills; and an ulti that isnt countered by vortex... Then he would outlevel anyone who has to invest half of their points into vortex. With the level advantage, he would auto attack much better than the other player. If his opponent has a strong auto-attacking build; that means it had a very weak start. Auto attacking+vortex=you are gonna level slowly. You would have to play aggressively against a vortex build; but it wouldn't be too difficult to overcome.

i think the main problem with vortex players is they are afraid of getting good farming skills as they won't have mana induels... use your mana intensive farming skills to farm more than pvp... it won't hurt you to have a lot of lvls

holyshit fine sorry bad bloody comparison for most people... granted i'm more or less gonna stick w/ what i have since your right i havent randomed much but my experience in doing so tells me that actual PUBS are generally very very bad, but that is beside the point. i was simply using it as a retorical device to compare epic using the build to beat certain counters b/c A it fits him and B any player who has a build that is truly "pristine" or even any sense refined can generally beat a good 70-80% of the even decent players who simply try and counter the build b/c they are so comfortable. if you want a more realistic comparison i suppose it'd be the equivalent of me deciding to carrier rush in scII against every other player. even though i'm playing 1500 diamond players, IE very decent top 80% of the few 100,000s of players who play ladder, i'll still win about the same percentage of games b/c i'm very comfortable w/ the strategy. though people will still scout me and counter it, they are still not used to seeing someone use the strategy in the different number of ways that I do and thus do very poorly despite having the counter unit. i would've used that description earlier... but the other just felt more applicable to the clan... shoulda said good players i guess... sorry @ carefulbite cept not really b/c i dont feel that i merited that sort aggression.

Dude dude ignore badcha he picks a fight for no reason at all. Careibite= long time ago BadChaPlayer a former chao member. He always has a chip on his shoulder he is always an asshole.

Its not that I have a chip or that Im agressively calling him out just putting a stop to the myth is all nothing more nothing less. Glorn your comparisons are off slightly 1 out 10 games will have a clan member that or a former clan member. 1 out of 5 games you will get a random where you simply cant win the game alone. The build you get will sometimes either be 1. A team buff with no farm, 2. A disabler with no farm, 3, A bunch of farm potential but not enough mana to use it yet. Now what happens is sometimes you will get teammates that will get steam rolled by the oposition and they fail to buy you enough time to be of any use at all in that game. While you make the assumption that most pubs are noobs you fail to take into a account sometime those noobs are on your team and when your put in a situation where you have to depend on them sometimes you will lose regardless of your skill level. The best quarter back in the world cant do shit when his offensive line refuse to block.

rooofl was just a comparison ur missing the point (dawg)... neway epic we need to play again this week. If your still using this build there are a few soft counter builds I wanna try against it.

i beat miki who was running this build i believe except he used a different farming skill frost fall i think. i used fire ward holy light mana restore sprint and avatar and he got 1 kill on me all game, it seemed constantly annoying but nothing more.

Your alive fatty!?!

jeez omfg imso he never stops talking about that game...